Painless spasms in abdominal area

by Kim
(Virginia)

I was diagnosed with Crohns disease in November 2007. I am currently taking Lialda and Entocort. I have noticed in the past several months that I get these spasms in my stomach. For the women out there, I describe them as the feeling you get when pregnant, when the fetus moves or kicks you. That is the best explanation for how it feels to me. If it were not for the fact that I have had a period every month and tests were negative, I would think that I am pregnant. But since I know I am not, I was wondering if anyone else had felt symptoms like this before. My gastroenterologist just upped the dosage on my medicine, but that has not helped. As I've said, the spasms are not painful, just very weird feeling. But I just don't like knowing what is causing something, you know? Anyway, if anyone has similar symptoms or advice, please let me know. Thanks.

Comments for Painless spasms in abdominal area

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S.o.d.
by: N-RM44

I been with pain in my stomach since 2/14/2014 and no doctor has said anything of make it go away according to them all test negative .. the even took my gallbladder out and same issue.

It like a bad cramp -like someone squeezing my stomach and I have to press at just rub it anything that may work to make it go away .. after that I vomit what ever I got if any in my stomach the the diarrhea..

I have 2 young girls that really need me.

Monster in side me
by: Anonymous

Ive been seeing jumping in my stomach what?

Well this is odd..
by: Anonymous male

Non rythmic, chaotic, POWERFULL cramps that really feel like something is alive in lower right abdomen. Feels like large intestines i think. Zero pain but a vary noticable pulse/kick.
Just ate loads of food 😁 and relaxing flat on back when it started.

My stomach on right side keep jumping
by: Anonymous

I hate that feeling on my right side feels like my belly inside is jumping weird feels the same way like a baby in there crazy I wish it would stop

Crohns
by: Paula

I have had these for a couple of years and it started after having kids one is 16 and one is 7. They do feel exactly like when a babie is moving not kicking almost gentle not painful at all I don't have crohns or lacking in vitamins but it did start after I was DX Diabetes. I also get other spasms also non painful in my legs, arms and back all after being DX Diabetic. Don't no if they are related but it is weird I don't think they are hurting me in anyway

Muscle Spasms
by: Anonymous

I've been having spasms like this for a week and a half. It does feel like baby movement, but I tested and I'm not pregnant. It is so weird. It's not painful, just feels strange. I'm gonna talk to my Dr. about it when I go next month. Thanks for sharing your symptoms too.

All day today...
by: Anonymous

I am a recovered Chrones patient. I have not had to have any type of laparoscopy or intestinal operations for over 17 years. All day today I have had a slippery churning feeling just below my appendix scar. It feels like a small creature is playing inside my colon, jumping on a small trampoline intermittently. While painless but worysome enough to find this site;
I am resoluting the tickling tumbling, painless spasms to the Chrones disease and can only be grateful it does not hurt at all. Best wishes to those who suffer from this disease. There IS life beyond Chrones Disease. Xo, Amatielle

Painless flutter
by: Anonymous

I've also have painless flutters in my lower abdomen right above my c section for about a month now it's everyday at certain times consistently off and on all day

I have them too.
by: ramia

Thank God, i saw this forum. I thought I was the only person having these spasms.But it happens something even stranger with me. Sometimes, before a spasm like this, I feel either a pressure on my forehead, or a buzz in an ear, or a pain in my head, or a kind of dizziness, or a pressure in my chest area, and today I felt a sense of burning on my eye. And all these symptoms (they don't happen all together, just one of them each time) last for a couple of seconds and then they disappear and I feel the intestine spasms. Most of the times though, I don't have any other symptome except for these strange intestine contractions. Does any of you experience symptoms like these before the spasms?

Fluttering spasms in lower abdomen
by: Anonymous

Q:
What are some of the potential causes of abdominal fluttering?
A:
Quick Answer

Abdominal fluttering or spasms can be caused by pregnancy, muscle fatigue, stress, excess gas or acid in the gastrointestinal tract, or bowel disorders. Abdominal fluttering is described as a vibration or fluttering sensation in the abdomen, according to Steady Health.


Full Answer

Pregnancy is one common cause of abdominal fluttering. It is not a cause for alarm, but it is important to verify the pregnancy with a physician. If the patient is not pregnant, she should explore other possible culprits with a doctor.

Fatigue and stress can also cause abdominal fluttering. The muscles in the abdomen spasm because of tension in the body, which produces a fluttering sensation. Excess gas or acid in the gastrointestinal tract are potential causes as well.

Bowel disorders are a common cause of abdominal fluttering. The term "spastic colon" is used to described a frequent symptom of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), which results from bowel contractions, according to the Mayo Clinic. Patients with spastic colon should discuss treatment options with a doctor.

Most causes of abdominal fluttering are not serious health risks, according to Health Grades, but they require professional diagnosis. This is especially true if the fluttering is accompanied by pain, nausea, fever or respiratory problems. In some cases, serious conditions like diverticulitis or bowel obstructions can cause abdominal fluttering.

mayoclinic.org
steadyhealth.com
healthgrades.com

Spasms
by: Debbie

Just started getting these spasms . It does feel like a baby kicking w/o pain. Weird

not a disease
by: Anonymous

Check out kundalini energy information and there may be some answers there. I have had this for 16 years now after a major kundalini experience. Exactly like Braxton hicks cramping. No pain. Just trapped energy moving around I believe. Rather strange but humans are evolving ... fast!

Doctors are idiots....even the specialists
by: Jr

Figure it out yourself....the docs will have no clue....nor will they care.

Possibly a muscle spasm caused by vitamin deficiency
by: Anonymous

I don't have Crohn's, but this thread came up when I was searching for what this baby kicking feeling was. I found this explanation saying it's a muscle spasm. http://buddymd.com/stomach-twitching-not-pregnant I think I still might mention it to my doctor at my next appointment just to see what he has to say about it.

Phantom Pregnancy Movements
by: Anonymous

I have experienced these movements for the past 12 years and I am 66 years old. So no pregnancy. They are just like Braxton Hicks cramps. I think it is prana energy moving around, Trapped in the solar plexus chakra. What to do? no idea.

it is like something shaking
by: Anonymous

I got the same and a saler in a natural product told me in chinese medecine it is related to fat in liver which i know i have because i did an echographie so he gave me tri-lipotropic but see a practician before taking it just for safety

to misty
by: Anonymous

Not to scare you or anything but the pain before and after bowel movments is not normal and reminds me of taking care of my mother who recently passed from bowel cancer. dont want to scare just please if there is undiagnosed pain keep on it untill they figure it out. dont let them blow you off as they did to her, and find out when its too late.

Me pregant? Is that a baby in there? Nope Its your Crohns
by: It's a Frreakin Miracle!

Holy cow I am glad I saw this post. I have just been diagnosed with Crohns and was sitting here with my stomach feeling like there was a baby kicking around. Bubble, Bump, Kick, move. so I had to check this out on the internet, and HA here you are,same description as I had. Thank YOUUUU.

I get them too!
by: Anonymous

I get them too, but mine start on my middle lower back and will continue around to my front side. It is the weirdest thing ever. I think it is a muscle beacuse I get massages and she said it seems tight. One reason I think it is a muscle is because once I sit and get settled it stops. It is so weird. If I turn over it will start and it lasts about 4 minutes until I get settled. Weird!

Healing
by: Long time patient

I read along time ago and I wish I knew where that this jumping means it is healing.

no pain, just spasms in my abdomen area
by: Anonymous

We are not ALL CRazy. This is a real spastic feeling, like a giant worm is swimming around my left intestinal area, going above my navel and way to the left side, a spasm here, a spasm there. It is very strange. I am going to my gastro doctor and finally see what is going on. Everyone should know THIS IS NOT NORMAL and should go see a specialist.

ABDOMINAL SPASMS
by: KARI

I HAVE HAD PAINLESS SPASMS MYSELF FOR A LITTLE OVER A MONTH...JUST BELOW MY DIAPHRAGM AND AT THE TOP OF MY ABDOMEN AND SOME DAYS I HAEDLY FEEL THEM AND OTHER DAYS ITS QUITE A BIT, WHEN I MENTIONED IT TO MY DOCTOR SHE JUST LOOKED AT ME FUNNY AND SAID, I DONT KNOW WHY IT WOULD BE DOING THAT... I THEN WENT TO THE E R BECAUSE IT WAS JUST SO CONTINUOS FOR THAT DAY AND IT WAS ANNOYING. IT DOES NOT TAKE MY BREATH AWAY WHEN IT SPASMS BUT IT KINDA CATCHES YOU OFF GUARD SO IF YOUR SLEEPING IT JOLTS YOU AWAKE....ANYWAYS, THE E R SENT ME HOME WITH ATIVAN BASICALLY THINKING IT WAS A PANIC ATTACK... IDK. MY DOCTOR SAYS IF ITS NOT PAINFUL THEN SHE WOULDNT REALLY WORRY ABOUT....

grrr....spasm, spasm, spasm
by: misty

well my first post was july of 2011 and i still have the spasms. everytime i tell a doctor they feel like a baby kicking they treat me like im crazy, and suggest a fantom pregnancy. im content with 3 kids. my youngest is 2. i got my tubes tied and still dont want anymore. at times they are so strong my entire right side from my ribcage to my thigh can move. its like your eye constantly twitching.come next month it will be a year since i had breast milk. and over 6 months for the spasms on my lower right side. started after a few weeks having pain with the spasms about 20 minutes before, durring and 20 minutes after bowel movements. at times i swear i can feel my bowels actually moving past that spot. and like others it can keep me up at night. i have had many test, ultrasounds, colonoscapies and all and still cant figure it out. i wouldnt worry so much if it wasnt painful at times and so strong to see my entire right side move. and at times i also get bloated.everytime i wake up i have bowel movements. dosnt matter if i slept for an hour. and i feel ill untill about 20 minutes or so after. if anyone gets any answers please let me know. thanks

I am,,,
by: Anonymous

A man and I get this also, feels like something is trying to get out of me,,,

I am,,,
by: Anonymous

A man and I get this also, feels like something is trying to get out of me,,,

Same for daughter
by: Anonymous

I have been having the same thing happen to my daughter and shes 11 years old.

to Juli
by: Anonymous

PLEASE, PLEASE,PLEASE go see a doctor!!! Most people are diagnosed with Crohn's disease when they are int heir teens. It is a very serious disease. I was diagnosed at 20 after being incorrectly diagnosed for 6 years! This is a chronic ilness that MUST be treated. If you catch it early enough, you can really help yourself from a life of pain and many surgeries. This disease can completely dibilatate your life if you do not get diagnosed and on the right medicines and diet, you will be in for a VERY hard life. Trust me because I live it every day for 10 years since diagnosis. If I can help even one person not to experience the same tough road I have had to face, then please be this person. h I will hope that you do not have this disease or that you have a mild case but PLEASE go see a doctor. As for your mother, tell her to wake up! As a kid and teen I always had a stomach ache and my mom thought I was a faker for a long time and after my diagnosis she felt awful (BUT, I IN NO WAY BLAME HER). Her father died of Crohn's disease and it was a very hard and painful death for him and us. Please see a doctor and I will keep my fingers crossed for you. If anyone reading this has painful stabbing in their stomachs get an internist as your primary care doctor and go see a GI doctor right away. It is not normal and it will only get worse.

just wonder
by: Anonymous

I am definately not pregnant (menopause.), and have started to have painless spasms that feel like baby kicks. I had bronchitis about a month ago and took antibiotics (Z-pac). I know antibiotics and upset normal bowel 'flora' and wonder is any of you may have also taken antibiotics recently - or just before onset of these spasm/flutters? Also, due to bronchitis - lots of coughing and abdominal muscles were contracted alot over a 7-10 day period. Just thinking what has been different as the spasms are new to me.

same feeling
by: Anonymous

Just started having the same feelings in the past month. I have celiac and also eosinophilic gastroenteritis - so I've been panicky that this is either another stomach issue or a complication of my current issues. I haven't yet mentioned it to my GI doc since it's hard to get an appt with him and I have one scheduled in another 1.5 months anyway. I'm glad to know that other people experience this. And yes, it is exactly like when I was getting kicked while pregnant, and I know I'm not pregnant.

Feelings of kicking under my ribs
by: Anonymous

I have not been diagnosed with chrons, but I have had a partial hysterectomy, and no periods for over 10 yrs. I have a belly that looks like I am 6-7 months pregnant, I have not taken any tests yet, because I am scared of the outcome. I do have an appt. coming up on the 26th of this month, and I guess I will find out then. I feel movement, kicking, I have cravings, weight gain, and a big belly. The kicking usually happens under my ribs. I feel something like stretching inside me, and it extends to my lower abdomen. I am confused, a little scared, and looking for answers. I have been pregnant before, and thats what it feels like.

SPASMS
by: Anonymous

WELL IT HAS BEEN 3 WEEKS NOW IT STARTED FEELING LIKE A BABY MOVING AND HAS NOW SETTLED TO A SPASM IN MY LOWER RIGHT SIDE. I HAVE BEEN LEAKING MILK FOR 5 MONTHS. MY TUBES ARE TIED, BUT I TOOK A HOME PREGNANCY TEST AND IT WAS POSSATIVE. IM WAITING ON TEST RESULTS. BUT I HAVE ALSO HAD REGULAR PERIODS. THEY ARE GOING TO DO AN ULTRASOUND IN A COUPLE DAYS TO RULE OUT TUBAL PREGNANCY. CHECKING BLOOD FOR THYROID AND IF THAT COMES BACK NORMAL ONTO A BRAIN MRI TO CHECK FOR TUMORS THAT CAUSE PREGNANCY SYMPTOMS. SO I TOO AM LOOKING FOR ANSWERS.

SPASMS
by: Anonymous

WELL IT HAS BEEN 3 WEEKS NOW IT STARTED FEELING LIKE A BABY MOVING AND HAS NOW SETTLED TO A SPASM IN MY LOWER RIGHT SIDE. I HAVE BEEN LEAKING MILK FOR 5 MONTHS. MY TUBES ARE TIED, BUT I TOOK A HOME PREGNANCY TEST AND IT WAS POSSATIVE. IM WAITING ON TEST RESULTS. BUT I HAVE ALSO HAD REGULAR PERIODS. THEY ARE GOING TO DO AN ULTRASOUND IN A COUPLE DAYS TO RULE OUT TUBAL PREGNANCY. CHECKING BLOOD FOR THYROID AND IF THAT COMES BACK NORMAL ONTO A BRAIN MRI TO CHECK FOR TUMORS THAT CAUSE PREGNANCY SYMPTOMS. SO I TOO AM LOOKING FOR ANSWERS.

Jumpy Tummy
by: Anonymous

I get them and I have Crohns, they think.. I will undergoe the double baloon thing in Sept. ;( I have already had two other procedures and billions of tests urinary/blood/bowel.. and swallowed a camera. Back to the Jumpy Tummy, I have Not ever been pregnant but I do feel the constant movement or spasms and they do cause dull aching pains that also seem constant. I am on meds pentasa, etecort and omeprazole(sp) for upset tummy haha haaha..And nothing relieves it. At 1st they were a curiosity and not painful, however because it is so constant I think something gets overworked. Like a jogger who takes on that extra mile. I am sore throughout most of my entire midsection all around to my back and lower rib cage. So you are not alone. PS, DO NOT let your Dr tell you that OTHER patients respond well to these treatments! Everyone is different, and to be honest all the research I have done online? The percentage of Crohns sufferers that are on effective medicine is very small. Meaning that I think the Drs prescribe the few things out there for us and cross their fingers.

I have them too.
by: KimV

I was just diagnosed with Crohn's and I am currently on EntoCort. I have these feelings occasionally just below the bellybutton, like my intestines are jumping around a little. It doesn't last long.

I have them too.
by: KimV

I was just diagnosed with Crohn's and I am currently on EntoCort. I have these feelings occasionally just below the bellybutton, like my intestines are jumping around a little. It doesn't last long.

Painless spasms - same symptoms
by: Anonymous

I'm not sure what causes them, but I am healthy and not pregnant and I get these as well...

Wobbling
by: Jeli

Another thing, is how to deal with symptoms when you look them up online. First option: Dont, everything can give you a heart attack or coma so those things are on like every list.

if you MUST look something up, then try and get instead of a diagnosis, a set of major conditions and what those conditions can be caused by. And always keep in mind that your nervous system has several big areas, and those are the ones that twitch and get disturbed. Its a product of the sympathetic system.

I use it as a metric to decide whether i should see a doctor, or if im over-reacting. 99% over-reacting. Though when I had to look for "Skin ulcers" My decision to go to the doctor was correct.

Esta
by: Lanchi

As far as I can tell (Im male, 25 years old, general european mutt descent.) these things are caused by GI spasms, which we cant really feel. Instead it seems to radiate out; its on the left side because, well, thats where all the imiportant stuff is aimed for.

If it gets to be a real problem, go get it checked out. But so long as its painless, its probably not anything major. I have some irritating muscle problems that send such waves up my chest, andi nto my heart, which panics me, causes my mitral valve prolapse to express itself (as pain in my heart) and then proceed to a complete emotional breakdown.

We're all quite good at driving ourselves crazy over nothing. or "essentially nothing." If you have had problems for months and months with no increase or decrease, well, its probably not gonna harm you. Still, doctor would be best if they are reccurent.

If its a one time thing then calm down. Its about the same as accidetnly feeling your pulse as your heart changes tempo; if you go looking, i guaratnee you'll find it.

Spasms
by: Jentel

As all of you have mentioned about the baby kicking spaskms kicks, I too have had them however my issue comes with some other symptoms. Prier to this my cycle completley stopped but I'm not pregnant, then i got this weird pregnancy bloating and swollen uterus for about 2weeks. I did some research and found out this could be uterine fibriods(begin tumor)recently the bloating has gone down a great deal but I have the spasms daily (painless) and usually on my right side. Any ideas,or comments

Spasms in abdomen
by: Anonymous

I started having these spasms a year ago and it kinda freaked me out. But 2 years ago, I found out that I have kidney stones. I had to have a large one blasted and I still get small ones every now and then, which are not always painful. I now have spasms on my left side under my rib and it lasts a few minutes but I think its just a small kidney stone passing. I go to a urologist who does an ultrasound and can see the small stones. Just thought this might help some you.

Strange spasms
by: Mike

I notice that most of the postings are from women. I too get these same painless spasms to in my lower abdomin. Its driving me crazy. And just as with Phil's comment, I've told people it feels like I were pregnant and a baby is kicking ... but with no pain. A week ago I was experiencing bloating after I ate and my herbalist gave me some herbs to help digestion and that helped ... along with taking acidophulus after my meals. I feel it has helped. The spasms continue but with less intensity and with no pain. My energy level is high ... took a one hour spinning class and felt great. CAN'T figure it out.

Spasms
by: D1984

I am 26, and I have had stomach spasms starting a few weeks ago. They are NOT in my lower abdomen, but are in the area of my actual stomach. Right near my diaphragm. I have no idea what they are. There is no pain, just a jumping feeling. Some days it is worse than others. It also accompanies a feeling of being bloated. It is so annoying that it keeps me up at night. I went to the gastro, and he didn't seem to know what it was either.

wierd
by: phil

i have had spasms for about a year. no pain but wierd, just like when you are pregnant,but they continue on and on. i shake my leg to keep from noticing it.

bed shaking
by: Rosa

i've had ibs for 28 yrs. i used to have pain w/it but i don't no more. yesterday i was falling asleep and i could kinda feel the bed shaking, and all of a sudden i felt my stomach and it was jumping around so much and it was real forceful, too! i became so scared that i jumped out of bed and rushed to the e.r. by that time i talked myself out of goin in because i wasn't in pain. i am supposed to see a g.i. dr. after blood work and tests r done but i keep putting it off. i know ya all may be thinkin i'm crazy but this is really a true story. is there anyone else out there that has had similar experiences?

rosa

Juli
by: Constant

Since Thursday, December 31st, is when it became more active. Now it's pretty much constant, I can feel it all the time, I can't lay on my sides without an extremely funny feeling. It made my appetite come back though, so now all I wish to do is eat. I am pretty thin, I hope that everything is okay and that I don't need to go see my doctor. I want to sleep more now, I seem to have a lot of the same symptoms as a regular pregnancy, but it really couldn't be obviously. Gosh, I hope it doesn't eat me or something, not kidding sometimes it kind of feels like it's eating my stomach or something...

It's not painful
by: Juli

It's not painful, and no I haven't been told I have Crohns, I actually don't know what Crohns is. I simply looked up the feeling in my lower stomach and I'm wondering what it is. If I did have Crohns I think my doctor would have found it, but actually he isn't exactly...smart, so I have no idea. I tried explaining to my mom about it but she could care less. It's not painful really. Once and a while it feels like a really hard kick and yes it does hurt, it also tends to sit on my bladder. I swear it's like a baby, but I haven't had sex so that makes no sense. I'm still confused. My mom probably wouldn't take me to the doctor, so I'll have to figure this out on my own I guess.

it is normal
by: brenda

ihave asked my doctor about those painless spasms and he keep telling me it is okay. So in 08,I decided to keep a journal and I noticed i get them alot when it is close to my cycle, if i am stressed, when i dont get enough rest. For those that have them it may be a good idea for you to keep a journal. Sometimes they get painful. THat is usually when i am stressed or have been going and going and dont get a chance to sit and down and rest then i will have painful ones for a few hours! Oh yea when they are painful my stomach also makes loud noises. Sounds like I am hungry. My four year old thinks it is funny. I was diagnosed with crohns for 2yrs. Try the journal it may help.

juli
by: Anonymous

have been told you have crohns?? IF you have not had sex it is not a baby. If your stomach hurts you should tell your mom you are scared and that you have this pain alot. you may need to see a doctor.

julie
by: Anonymous

have been told you have crohns?? IF you have not had sex it is not a baby. If your stomach hurts you should tell your mom you are scared and that you have this pain alot. you may need to see a doctor.

A Funny Feeling
by: Juli

I too have had that. For about five months now, but recently it's been more active, feels as if a baby were moving. When it first started it simply felt like something was tickling the inside of my side, it got worse the other day and made me twitch and I feel... a connection with whatever it is. I haven't been diagnosed with anything, and I don't know if it is Crohns or not, I would rather not ask my doctor. I am fourteen and I'll be fifteen in February;I am a virgin. I even told my mother about the weird feeling, she just told me it was my "teenage stomach" she'll say that for just about anything, so I'm guessing even if I wanted to go to the doctors she wouldn't take me. If it is a baby, some form of an irregular pregnancy I am a little scared, because I'm not ready for a child. I'm not sure what to think at this point. Thankfully I know I'm not the only one though!

S.C.
by: Casie

I've been having those same exact symptoms. I have regular periods plus I even have an IUD so I know I'm not pregnant. I guess the symptoms began about 5 years ago but it only happened a couple of times back then, but recently it's been happening more often. I've noticed that extremely vigorous activity can trigger it, but sometimes it just happens for no other apparent reason. The sensations can last a few minutes but usually last from 1-3 hours. It's not painful, but it's just really weird feeling and it's kind of difficult to concentrate on much when I'm having one of those "stomach spasm" episodes.

Crohns and Pregnancy
by: Kim

Actually since becoming pregnant, I have felt better than I have in a long time. Especially when considering the Crohns. I think it has to do with the fact that your immune system actually hibernates a little in order to keep your body from rejecting the new baby. In any case, I feel great. I am not on any medication except for prenatal vitamins at the moment. My doctor said that it is possible that I will flare as soon as the baby comes, but I have six months until then.

crohns and pregnancy
by: brebda

I need to know is it hard being pregnant with crohns? My husband and I want to have another baby (#4) but I dont know anyone with crohns to ask is it difficult. My doctor said it is possible. Can someone share with me their experience on being pregnant with crohns. My crohns is under control

Painless spasms in abdominal area
by: Kim

Thanks guys and gals for making me feel less crazy. Of course, now I am pregnant (12 weeks along) so when I feel the spasms, I know they are my bowels but know that soon it may be my baby. At least I know I am not the only one out there feeling this. Thanks for the justification.

spasms
by: Anonymous

I have had these symptoms too, and I know I am not pregnant because I am a guy!!! Its funny I never thought to ask about this as I just thought it was normal.

painless spasm
by: brenda

i hav the same feeling. i said something to my doctor and he said it was normal. since it is not painful he said dont worry. I still want to know. you're right it is like a baby moving.

Painless spasms in abdominal area
by: JoAnne

I have them and mine feel like some think is moving in my intestines. It feels funny, but still uncomfortable. I thought it was just me so I never asked my doctor are any thing. I thought he would think I was a crazy women. Thanks for making me feel like I am not crazy!!!

Reply to Painless Spasms
by: Dell

I have had Chrons for 21 years and from time to time I have had those feelings too. And I know I cannot be pregnant! I am 58 years old and went thru the change ten years ago! They don't hurt, just feels like something gently moving in there. You are right about that but it isn't anything to worry about as it has done it off and on for me almost since the beginning.

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